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Quote of the day: A Big Bang led to star being born.

WELCOME new member AMaizawing (April 03, 2020)


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Christians and sin......
(02-14-2019, 10:40 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 10:32 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 10:27 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 10:22 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 10:07 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: Both of those presentations are true....except for the 'petty' reference.  God is vengeful of sin.  God is a God of justice and judgment and righteousness.  That is evidenced by the destructions of whole civilizations in the OT where they had turned so far to idolatry and wickedness to the point of sacrificing their own children.  God judged their wicked behavior.  That same God....the God of the OT......turned from His anger toward Nineveh(Jonah) BECAUSE they repented of their wickedness....and forgave them.  

We MUST present the whole picture, not the piece that fits our opinion.

We're going down a much deeper rabbit hole with this discussion....

Before God put Jesus on earth, what reason was there for people to believe in him?  Keep in mind that Religions, like Buddhism, existed a thousand years before God put Jesus on earth to begin spreading Christianity.

Man's search for God has existed as long as man has existed.....because we were created with a "God shaped hole" that we as humans continually try to fill with religion, stuff, money, sex, and other non-filling endeavors.  

So yes....religion has existed forever, in human terms.

Blaise Pascal said it best:


"What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God himself" 

That isn't really a response to my question.  Before Jesus was born, and able to communicate "God", what reason was there for any person to believe in the Christian God?  Why was God punishing people, and killing innocent children, before he even made man aware of his existence?

Man was aware of God's presence from the very beginning..... how?  are we to believe that God made his presence known and people chose to worship a rock in stead?

Romans 1 tells us that creation in itself speaks of God.  - No offense, but the Bible isn't really an objective source for information.


Jesus was God's path to redemption back to Him thru His sacrifice for you, me,

Jesus was, for man, the beginning of Christianity and the Christian God.  If man was on a path away from God, it's because God didn't tell man he existed prior to Jesus spreading the word.

and everyone else IF we accept the gift.  

Keep in mind that religions like Hinduism preceded Christianity by over 1,000 years.  It's a fact that people are HIGHLY likely to take on the religion of their parents.  Can you see how this is an issue when God didn't make himself known earlier and, in doing so, condemned billions of people to eternal damnation?

In the old testament, that redemption was looking forward to Christ, just as we look back at Christ......Jesus Christ is the center piece of mankind's search for God.

So yes, there was religion back at the very beginning.  There were people that rejected God and chose other paths.

There are people who were never given the chance to reject god because their religion precedes Christianity and was firmly established before God let the world know he exists.

 
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(02-14-2019, 10:50 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: The entire religious sacrificial system of the OT was nothing but a pointing to the sacrifice of Christ and the cross.  The OT itself is full of signs of the coming age of Christianity.  Baptism is portrayed in both the Flood and the drowning of the Egyptians in the sea as they chased the Israelites.  Salvation was by faith in the Messiah that was to come.

Correct.  All kinds of references in the Old Testament about the coming of Jesus and eternal life.
In Ezekiel God talks about these dry bones and breathing life back into these bones.
There are plenty of verses talking about this subject if one is willing to just look.
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So, can anyone name a civilization destroyed by a possible "Act of God" since 0 AD?

I can't think of one, might be something in Indonesia perhaps due to a volcano or something.

The Mayans may have been severely reduced by climate changes, maybe. They didn't survive a later human intervention very intact. Maybe somewhere in Africa?
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Aside from killing off whole cities and civilizations, the other thing that seems to have stopped are the large scale miracles, like parting the Red Sea etc.

It's almost as if the God of the OT operated one way and then the God of the NT changed rather significantly.

Perhaps some of those miracles were allegorical stories meant to teach rather than being taken literally?

Or the God who had a large fish swallow Jonah and spit him out three days later just stopped doing those things?
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(02-14-2019, 11:04 AM)cincydawg Wrote: It's almost as if the God of the OT operated one way and then the God of the NT changed rather significantly.

Changed?  No.  Changed how he interacted with humanity?  You could say that but there were reasons for it.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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(02-14-2019, 11:08 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 11:04 AM)cincydawg Wrote: It's almost as if the God of the OT operated one way and then the God of the NT changed rather significantly.

Changed?  No.  Changed how he interacted with humanity?  You could say that but there were reasons for it.

like realizing that it's pretty f**ked up to punish people for not believing in a God that hasn't bothered to tell them he existed?
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So, any civilizations killed off by an act of God since 0 AD? No?

Any major miracles since then?

Any thought about the millions who lived in the Americas or Asia who had zero chance to hear about God in their lives?

Do they all perish to Hell?
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(02-14-2019, 11:10 AM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 11:08 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 11:04 AM)cincydawg Wrote: It's almost as if the God of the OT operated one way and then the God of the NT changed rather significantly.

Changed?  No.  Changed how he interacted with humanity?  You could say that but there were reasons for it.

like realizing that it's pretty f**ked up to punish people for not believing in a God that hasn't bothered to tell them he existed?

Evidence of God's existence is all around but sin prevents the eyes from seeing.  There are no excuses as Paul writes.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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(02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Any thought about the millions who lived in the Americas or Asia who had zero chance to hear about God in their lives?

Do they all perish to Hell?

Seems that way.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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(02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)cincydawg Wrote: So, any civilizations killed off by an act of God since 0 AD?  No?

Any major miracles since then?

Any thought about the millions who lived in the Americas or Asia who had zero chance to hear about God in their lives?

Do they all perish to Hell?

Two mules for sister Sarah...
Sara : It was a miracle you found me when you did, Mr Hogan.
Hogan : That was no miracle, just an accident and life is full of 'em.
Sara : No. It was a miracle.
Hogan : Yes, ma'am. Two men are ridin' along side by side, a bullet ricochets off a rock, kills one of them but not the other - just an accident, no miracle.
Sara : Then you believe there are no miracles?
Hogan : Well, um... Now, you take that fella this morning. He could've picked up that stick of dynamite and thrown it back at me before I shot him. Now, that would have been a miracle.
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(02-14-2019, 11:14 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Any thought about the millions who lived in the Americas or Asia who had zero chance to hear about God in their lives?

Do they all perish to Hell?

Seems that way.

Sounds like a loving, caring and graceful God to me.  Doesn't it to you?
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Yup, it does seem that way. I'm not sure how supportive I am of a God that is so clearly unjust and immoral and who seems to revel in being praised by us mortals all the time.
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