(02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:10 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:08 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:04 AM)cincydawg Wrote: It's almost as if the God of the OT operated one way and then the God of the NT changed rather significantly.
Changed? No.  Changed how he interacted with humanity? You could say that but there were reasons for it.
like realizing that it's pretty f**ked up to punish people for not believing in a God that hasn't bothered to tell them he existed?
Evidence of God's existence is all around
If you're already a believer, yes.
but sin prevents the eyes from seeing.Â
There are no excuses as Paul writes.
Paul may be slightly biased and have an agenda.
(02-14-2019, 11:15 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Yup, it does seem that way. Â I'm not sure how supportive I am of a God that is so clearly unjust and immoral and who seems to revel in being praised by us mortals all the time.
God works in mysterious (irrational) ways......
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(02-14-2019, 11:17 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:10 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:08 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:04 AM)cincydawg Wrote: It's almost as if the God of the OT operated one way and then the God of the NT changed rather significantly.
Changed? No.  Changed how he interacted with humanity? You could say that but there were reasons for it.
like realizing that it's pretty f**ked up to punish people for not believing in a God that hasn't bothered to tell them he existed?
Evidence of God's existence is all around
If you're already a believer, yes.
but sin prevents the eyes from seeing.Â
There are no excuses as Paul writes.
Paul may be slightly biased and have an agenda.
Nope. The evidence is there according to God but people will not believe it. Paul does indeed have an agenda.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."
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(02-14-2019, 11:15 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:14 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Any thought about the millions who lived in the Americas or Asia who had zero chance to hear about God in their lives?
Do they all perish to Hell?
Seems that way.
Sounds like a loving, caring and graceful God to me. Doesn't it to you? God reveals himself through nature also.
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One can argue that evidence for a Creator can be found in nature. That evidence is of course not specific to the God of the Bible. Einstein, and others, believed in a Creator, in his case the "god of Spinoza". Jefferson of course believed similarly, the deist god, distant from the concerns of man.
So, to the extent a creator is revealed in nature, it by no means is the Christian god necessarily.
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(02-14-2019, 11:15 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Yup, it does seem that way. Â I'm not sure how supportive I am of a God that is so clearly unjust and immoral and who seems to revel in being praised by us mortals all the time.
Clearly you have not studied the Word of God and can understand it.
There is nothing unjust and immoral about the loving God.
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I think condemning millions and billions of humans who had no chance at salvation is unjust and immoral.
(02-14-2019, 11:18 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:17 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:10 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:08 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: Changed? No.  Changed how he interacted with humanity? You could say that but there were reasons for it.
like realizing that it's pretty f**ked up to punish people for not believing in a God that hasn't bothered to tell them he existed?
Evidence of God's existence is all around
If you're already a believer, yes.
but sin prevents the eyes from seeing.Â
There are no excuses as Paul writes.
Paul may be slightly biased and have an agenda.
Nope. The evidence is there according to God but people will not believe it. Paul does indeed have an agenda.
God says that there's evidence of God everywhere?
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(02-14-2019, 11:28 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:18 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:17 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:10 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: like realizing that it's pretty f**ked up to punish people for not believing in a God that hasn't bothered to tell them he existed?
Evidence of God's existence is all around
If you're already a believer, yes.
but sin prevents the eyes from seeing.Â
There are no excuses as Paul writes.
Paul may be slightly biased and have an agenda.
Nope. The evidence is there according to God but people will not believe it. Paul does indeed have an agenda.
God says that there's evidence of God everywhere?
Because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures (Romans 1:19-23).
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(02-14-2019, 11:23 AM)cincydawg Wrote: I think condemning millions and billions of humans who had no chance at salvation is unjust and immoral. First of all God judges those at the end of times.Â
It's not clearly stated how God judges people like babies that die and young children. We tend to believe that until they reach the age of knowing right from wrong they will be in Heaven. Â
Again, you have no understanding of the God I know if you feel He is unjust and immoral.
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(02-14-2019, 11:34 AM)unc4corners Wrote: (02-14-2019, 11:23 AM)cincydawg Wrote: I think condemning millions and billions of humans who had no chance at salvation is unjust and immoral. First of all God judges those at the end of times.Â
It's not clearly stated how God judges people like babies that die and young children. We tend to believe that until they reach the age of knowing right from wrong they will be in Heaven. Â
Again, you have no understanding of the God I know if you feel He is unjust and immoral.
unc, I know we are not on the same page with this, but the Bible seems to say all of humanity is condemned not merely because of specific sinful acts but because they are inherently sinful from the moment they are conceived. There is no magic age of accountability although as humans we have a hard time accepting God's condemnation of children and the mentally ill. But there seems to be no wiggle room.
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There is a logical basis for a creator, but the nature of that creator is far from clear on the basis of logic and observation.
It could logically be the god of Spinoza. He or she need not be specifically the Christian view of God.
And this minor thing about billions of humans with no chance to be Saved is a rather significant issue for me.
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