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4 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,†but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.†Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(02-13-2019, 08:29 AM)cincydawg Wrote: My guess is different people have differing interpretations on this topic, which should be fine.
One would think that many of these questions would have been clarified long ago. Of course, it's difficult to get a good feeling for where "we" stand with God when he's as bipolar as a hormonal woman (old vs new testament).
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Questions have been "clarified" long ago, which is a big reason we see so many denominations.
The Pope "clarifies" one way, the Orthodox other ways, and the Protestants clarify in different ways, etc. Folks then choose a denomination that most closely comports to their beliefs, or the one their parents followed.
The writings of James and Paul do not appear to be consistent, to me.
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(02-13-2019, 09:31 AM)cincydawg Wrote: Questions have been "clarified" long ago, which is a big reason we see so many denominations.
The Pope "clarifies" one way, the Orthodox other ways, and the Protestants clarify in different ways, etc. Â Folks then choose a denomination that most closely comports to their beliefs, or the one their parents followed.
The writings of James and Paul do not appear to be consistent, to me.
Because Paul emphasizes faith and James emphasizes works?
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I've seen a lot written about this topic, from each "side", and there are two sides here.
I was raised Baptist and my minister told me, very clearly, that once I was baptized, I was saved no matter what I did from there on. It struck me as a pretty good deal at the time, being 12 years old or so.
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(02-13-2019, 10:13 AM)cincydawg Wrote: I've seen a lot written about this topic, from each "side", and there are two sides here.
I was raised Baptist and my minister told me, very clearly, that once I was baptized, I was saved no matter what I did from there on. Â It struck me as a pretty good deal at the time, being 12 years old or so.
No need. Most baptists believe in an "age of accountability" for children and you don't really sin, or at least God doesn't care about them, until you hit the magical age.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."
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The thief on the cross was promised heaven and was not baptized.
The America, and the American Military, that you once knew is gone.
(02-13-2019, 06:02 PM)lrrps21 Wrote: The thief on the cross was promised heaven and was not baptized.
Yah, but he was hanging next to the decision maker. He had connections. Everyone ELSE has to follow the standard process.
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Is this one of the things that mainline protestants and evangelical protestants disagree on?
Christ is the prototype. He proved that you can make it through this life without sin. Thus any deviation from a Christ-like existence is sin. Through His example you can learn who God is, and how to become like Him.
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(02-13-2019, 06:12 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-13-2019, 06:02 PM)lrrps21 Wrote: The thief on the cross was promised heaven and was not baptized.
Yah, but he was hanging next to the decision maker. He had connections. Everyone ELSE has to follow the standard process.
I disagree. Baptism certainly has it's place, and I believe we should be as a profession of our faith, but John and some of the Apostles baptized for salvation, before the death burial and resurrection of Christ. Certainly there are thousands and thousands of people since that time, that have repented, turned from their sin, yet died before ever having a chance to be baptized. Not every church has baptism on site, and that's not counting the mission fields or even some one repenting in a nursing home or such.
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(02-13-2019, 05:40 PM)cincydawg Wrote: https://dailyminyan.com/2014/05/08/salva...stle-paul/
Paul was a Jew of Jews. Trained under the greatest teachers of the Torah. I doubt Paul suddenly stopped going to temple and observing the Feast Days just because he came face to face with the Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus himself observed the Feasts. Paul also did not come up with the white church with a little cross on top. Jesus came to the Jewish people, Paul was sent to the Gentiles. They all agreed after Peters vision that gentiles were not under the same requirements of the Torah that Jews were. So he doesn't teach them as Jews. Paul taught spiritual truths, not Torah law.
(02-13-2019, 07:42 PM)Orbit1 Wrote: (02-13-2019, 05:40 PM)cincydawg Wrote: https://dailyminyan.com/2014/05/08/salva...stle-paul/
Paul was a Jew of Jews. Trained under the greatest teachers of the Torah. I doubt Paul suddenly stopped going to temple and observing the Feast Days just because he came face to face with the Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus himself observed the Feasts. Paul also did not come up with the white church with a little cross on top. Jesus came to the Jewish people, Paul was sent to the Gentiles. They all agreed after Peters vision that gentiles were not under the same requirements of the Torah that Jews were. So he doesn't teach them as Jews. Paul taught spiritual truths, not Torah law.
Paul taught spiritual truths.....that completely contradicted a lot of what the vengeful old testament God taught.
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(02-13-2019, 07:46 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (02-13-2019, 07:42 PM)Orbit1 Wrote: (02-13-2019, 05:40 PM)cincydawg Wrote: https://dailyminyan.com/2014/05/08/salva...stle-paul/
Paul was a Jew of Jews. Trained under the greatest teachers of the Torah. I doubt Paul suddenly stopped going to temple and observing the Feast Days just because he came face to face with the Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus himself observed the Feasts. Paul also did not come up with the white church with a little cross on top. Jesus came to the Jewish people, Paul was sent to the Gentiles. They all agreed after Peters vision that gentiles were not under the same requirements of the Torah that Jews were. So he doesn't teach them as Jews. Paul taught spiritual truths, not Torah law.
Paul taught spiritual truths.....that completely contradicted a lot of what the vengeful old testament God taught.
Paul met with the Apostles, was mentored by Barnabas, and traveled with Silas and Mark, and mentored Timothy, himself a highly respected early church apostle and leader. I highly doubt Paul's teachings were not in line with the others.
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