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Christians and sin......
#1
So, this subject came up on the old board in questions/discussion between NPB, UNC and myself over the subject of whether Christians are still sinners post conversion.  

I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

CAN Christians sin?  Of course.  Free will is not removed from a Christian and their actions are their own......This is evidenced by Demas, the NT follower of Christ for a time, who ultimately left the Way of Christ and went back because "he loved the world"  II Timothy 4:10.  But notice that he LEFT his faith.  He didn't stay in Christ, a Christian, he turned his back on it.

Romans 6:1 says "What shall we say then, shall we continue to sin that Grace(spoken of in Romans 5) may abound?  God forbid!"  Christians do not have to sin.  In fact, Ephesians 5 and other passages makes it clear that active practice of sin separates from God.  That would include separating a Christian, who was saved, from God.
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#2
Are you making overall generalizations?
DANGEROUS WHEN PROVOKED
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#3
Interesting....







MAGA
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#4
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt:  “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.  The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.  I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’  But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Drive like hell!!  You'll get there!
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#5
(02-12-2019, 04:36 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So, this subject came up on the old board in questions/discussion between NPB, UNC and myself over the subject of whether Christians are still sinners post conversion.  

I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

CAN Christians sin?  Of course.  Free will is not removed from a Christian and their actions are their own......This is evidenced by Demas, the NT follower of Christ for a time, who ultimately left the Way of Christ and went back because "he loved the world"  II Timothy 4:10.  But notice that he LEFT his faith.  He didn't stay in Christ, a Christian, he turned his back on it.

Romans 6:1 says "What shall we say then, shall we continue to sin that Grace(spoken of in Romans 5) may abound?  God forbid!"  Christians do not have to sin.  In fact, Ephesians 5 and other passages makes it clear that active practice of sin separates from God.  That would include separating a Christian, who was saved, from God.

Many spend their whole lives trying to acquire worldly goods, power, wealth, good health, etc.  In other words, they want it all.  Who doesn't?  I certainly do!  Here's the kicker.  If we'll just accept Jesus as our savior and attempt to follow his teachings, we'll have ALL of the aforementioned and much, much more.
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#6
Been working. I'll respond when I get some sit down time...
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#7
(02-12-2019, 06:56 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 04:36 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So, this subject came up on the old board in questions/discussion between NPB, UNC and myself over the subject of whether Christians are still sinners post conversion.  

I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

CAN Christians sin?  Of course.  Free will is not removed from a Christian and their actions are their own......This is evidenced by Demas, the NT follower of Christ for a time, who ultimately left the Way of Christ and went back because "he loved the world"  II Timothy 4:10.  But notice that he LEFT his faith.  He didn't stay in Christ, a Christian, he turned his back on it.

Romans 6:1 says "What shall we say then, shall we continue to sin that Grace(spoken of in Romans 5) may abound?  God forbid!"  Christians do not have to sin.  In fact, Ephesians 5 and other passages makes it clear that active practice of sin separates from God.  That would include separating a Christian, who was saved, from God.

Many spend their whole lives trying to acquire worldly goods, power, wealth, good health, etc.  In other words, they want it all.  Who doesn't?  I certainly do!  Here's the kicker.  If we'll just accept Jesus as our savior and attempt to follow his teachings, we'll have ALL of the aforementioned and much, much more.

I find your argument strewn with gaping defects in logic...
"Man is free at the instant he wants to be"
--Voltaire
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#8
If Cyrus never lived or Ögedei isn't an alcoholic then maybe these questions wouldn't matter
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#9
(02-12-2019, 06:56 PM)K9Buck Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 04:36 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So, this subject came up on the old board in questions/discussion between NPB, UNC and myself over the subject of whether Christians are still sinners post conversion.  

I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

CAN Christians sin?  Of course.  Free will is not removed from a Christian and their actions are their own......This is evidenced by Demas, the NT follower of Christ for a time, who ultimately left the Way of Christ and went back because "he loved the world"  II Timothy 4:10.  But notice that he LEFT his faith.  He didn't stay in Christ, a Christian, he turned his back on it.

Romans 6:1 says "What shall we say then, shall we continue to sin that Grace(spoken of in Romans 5) may abound?  God forbid!"  Christians do not have to sin.  In fact, Ephesians 5 and other passages makes it clear that active practice of sin separates from God.  That would include separating a Christian, who was saved, from God.

Many spend their whole lives trying to acquire worldly goods, power, wealth, good health, etc.  In other words, they want it all.  Who doesn't?  I certainly do!  Here's the kicker.  If we'll just accept Jesus as our savior and attempt to follow his teachings, we'll have ALL of the aforementioned and much, much more.

Jesus, and God's Word never promises any of those things.  In fact, Jesus says "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” In John 16.....

But the statement is exactly correct.  I've had a peace that passes all understanding since coming to Christ.
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#10
(02-12-2019, 04:36 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

The reference is to justification and forgiveness of sin.  Christians are still sinners and even the Apostle Paul admitted he was.  Justification is a declaration, not a miraculous soul cleansing.  The sin nature remains until death.
Drive like hell!!  You'll get there!
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#11
(02-13-2019, 08:15 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 04:36 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

The reference is to justification and forgiveness of sin.  Christians are still sinners and even the Apostle Paul admitted he was.  Justification is a declaration, not a miraculous soul cleansing.  The sin nature remains until death.

I agree, we are cleansed from all sin in the process of justification.  But to say that Christ is able to cleanse us from all sin, but then is not able to keep us from an active life of sin denies His power.  Justification is most certainly a miraculous soul cleansing.  II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."  THAT is miraculous!

What is your Biblical basis for saying that the sin nature must remain till death?
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#12
(02-13-2019, 08:21 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote:
(02-13-2019, 08:15 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(02-12-2019, 04:36 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: I posited that they are not still sinners, that God's grace cleanses them from all sin(I John 1:7- But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.)

The reference is to justification and forgiveness of sin.  Christians are still sinners and even the Apostle Paul admitted he was.  Justification is a declaration, not a miraculous soul cleansing.  The sin nature remains until death.

I agree, we are cleansed from all sin in the process of justification.  But to say that Christ is able to cleanse us from all sin, but then is not able to keep us from an active life of sin denies His power.  Justification is most certainly a miraculous soul cleansing.  II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."  THAT is miraculous!

What is your Biblical basis for saying that the sin nature must remain till death?

We are declared righteous, not made righteous in justification.
Drive like hell!!  You'll get there!
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