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Quote of the day: A Big Bang led to star being born.

WELCOME new member AMaizawing (April 03, 2020)


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zigbeeMy pitch to see Al Oliver Jr. in the HOF
#49
(08-24-2019, 09:39 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:35 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: AS game appearances and MVP awards are simply other people's opinion of you.  One guy played for the Dodgers, the other for Pittsburgh.  Who would likely benefit from more hype?
Which is exactly my point and thanks for your post.  The All Star Game selection and MVP are not indicators at all.   Hard stats is a better way and Oliver has better ones than Garvey.   Let's put Garvey in CF and see how he'd do over the course of his career.

That said Garvey played 19 years and I have no issue with him either when you consider Kirby Puckett and Harold Baines were selected.

The difference is Garvey was one of the best defensively at his position with 5 Gold Gloves.  That trait contributed to being MVP and the 10 all star selections.  Oliver was not a bad outfielder but just run of the mill.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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#50
(08-24-2019, 10:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:39 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:35 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: AS game appearances and MVP awards are simply other people's opinion of you.  One guy played for the Dodgers, the other for Pittsburgh.  Who would likely benefit from more hype?
Which is exactly my point and thanks for your post.  The All Star Game selection and MVP are not indicators at all.   Hard stats is a better way and Oliver has better ones than Garvey.   Let's put Garvey in CF and see how he'd do over the course of his career.

That said Garvey played 19 years and I have no issue with him either when you consider Kirby Puckett and Harold Baines were selected.

The difference is Garvey was one of the best defensively at his position with 5 Gold Gloves.  That trait contributed to being MVP and the 10 all star selections.  Oliver was not a bad outfielder but just run of the mill.
Those Gold Gloves are subjective.  You do realize the official scorer at all home games can decide whether or not to give an error?  Gold Gloves are not always given to the best defensive player at all.  Billy Hamilton was an incredible fielder and not once won a Gold Glove.   Oliver had 980 Field % and Garvey 996.  That is a difference of 16/100th of a %.  Run of the mill??? Lol.  That alone doesn't offset Oliver having better offensive stats either.   ALSO, playing CF vs first base?   How many guys are put at first base who are just average in the field?  Many.


Again, this is not an argument where Garvey belongs and Al doesn't.  No one made that point.  In fact if you say Garvey does just on Gold Gloves that makes no sense at all.  I'd like to know WHO is in over another guy just on that basis or metric alone.  If you say Garvey is worthy you have to say Oliver is no doubt.
Make America Honest Again
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#51
(08-24-2019, 10:21 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:39 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:35 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: AS game appearances and MVP awards are simply other people's opinion of you.  One guy played for the Dodgers, the other for Pittsburgh.  Who would likely benefit from more hype?
Which is exactly my point and thanks for your post.  The All Star Game selection and MVP are not indicators at all.   Hard stats is a better way and Oliver has better ones than Garvey.   Let's put Garvey in CF and see how he'd do over the course of his career.

That said Garvey played 19 years and I have no issue with him either when you consider Kirby Puckett and Harold Baines were selected.

The difference is Garvey was one of the best defensively at his position with 5 Gold Gloves.  That trait contributed to being MVP and the 10 all star selections.  Oliver was not a bad outfielder but just run of the mill.
Those Gold Gloves are subjective.  You do realize the official scorer at all home games can decide whether or not to give an error?  Gold Gloves are not always given to the best defensive player at all.  Billy Hamilton was an incredible fielder and not once won a Gold Glove.   Oliver had 980 Field % and Garvey 996.  That is a difference of 16/100th of a %.  Run of the mill??? Lol.  That alone doesn't offset Oliver having better offensive stats either.   ALSO, playing CF vs first base?   How many guys are put at first base who are just average in the field?  Many.


Again, this is not an argument where Garvey belongs and Al doesn't.  No one made that point.  In fact if you say Garvey does just on Gold Gloves that makes no sense at all.  I'd like to know WHO is in over another guy just on that basis or metric alone.  If you say Garvey is worthy you have to say Oliver is no doubt.

In terms of errors, 1B is a position where you have more opportunities to commit one so Garvey's numbers are amazing and show he was Gold Glove worthy.  As I have said a couple of times, their hitting stats are very similar but Garvey still has better over all qualifications in my view and he didn't make it.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#52
(08-24-2019, 10:27 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:21 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:13 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:39 AM)zigbee Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 09:35 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: AS game appearances and MVP awards are simply other people's opinion of you.  One guy played for the Dodgers, the other for Pittsburgh.  Who would likely benefit from more hype?
Which is exactly my point and thanks for your post.  The All Star Game selection and MVP are not indicators at all.   Hard stats is a better way and Oliver has better ones than Garvey.   Let's put Garvey in CF and see how he'd do over the course of his career.

That said Garvey played 19 years and I have no issue with him either when you consider Kirby Puckett and Harold Baines were selected.

The difference is Garvey was one of the best defensively at his position with 5 Gold Gloves.  That trait contributed to being MVP and the 10 all star selections.  Oliver was not a bad outfielder but just run of the mill.
Those Gold Gloves are subjective.  You do realize the official scorer at all home games can decide whether or not to give an error?  Gold Gloves are not always given to the best defensive player at all.  Billy Hamilton was an incredible fielder and not once won a Gold Glove.   Oliver had 980 Field % and Garvey 996.  That is a difference of 16/100th of a %.  Run of the mill??? Lol.  That alone doesn't offset Oliver having better offensive stats either.   ALSO, playing CF vs first base?   How many guys are put at first base who are just average in the field?  Many.


Again, this is not an argument where Garvey belongs and Al doesn't.  No one made that point.  In fact if you say Garvey does just on Gold Gloves that makes no sense at all.  I'd like to know WHO is in over another guy just on that basis or metric alone.  If you say Garvey is worthy you have to say Oliver is no doubt.

In terms of errors, 1B is a position where you have more opportunities to commit one so Garvey's numbers are amazing and show he was Gold Glove worthy.  As I have said a couple of times, their hitting stats are very similar but Garvey still has better over all qualifications in my view and he didn't make it.
What you really are not comprehending is the official scorer in saying Garvey was better defensively.  81 times per year the OS can decide to help home players....through the legs?  Base hit.   Missed a throw from SS ?  Error on the SS not first base.  It's your view but I easily shoot holes in that angle.  16/100th of a % in fielding difference?  Ok, whatever.  The offensive is not similar enough to override that at all.   
You continue to make my point.  You cannot say Garvey deserves on subjective stuff like Scarlethayes pointed out and Oliver who has better numbers on offense doesn't.
Make America Honest Again
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#53
Garvey isn't in the HOF because of his off field antics - sleeping with other players wives/girlfriends. Even in L.A. it was taboo back then. Now, he'd be praised for it and elected in the 1st round of voting. He'll follow Lazzeri and get in 50 years from now with a veteran vote.

Comparing outfield to infield is comparing apples and model glue. Nobody ever called LF the hot corner.
DC is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is basic voter stupidity and economic ignorance.
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#54
The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.
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#55
(08-24-2019, 10:41 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.

Remember he was a Michigan State football player.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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#56
(08-24-2019, 10:45 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:41 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.

Remember he was a Michigan State football player.


I did not know that.  What position?  I knew Kirk Gibson was.  Gibby of course was an absolute freak.  He should have played in the NFL.
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#57
(08-24-2019, 10:49 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:45 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:41 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.

Remember he was a Michigan State football player.


I did not know that.  What position?  I knew Kirk Gibson was.  Gibby of course was an absolute freak.  He should have played in the NFL.

DB.  Three other famous Dodgers played football there too including Gibson, Ron Perronoski and Mike Marshall.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


Reply
#58
(08-24-2019, 10:49 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:45 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:41 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.

Remember he was a Michigan State football player.


I did not know that.  What position?  I knew Kirk Gibson was.  Gibby of course was an absolute freak.  He should have played in the NFL.
Yes, he did play for Michigan State.  I'm going to guess LB?
Make America Honest Again
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#59
(08-24-2019, 10:52 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:49 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:45 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:41 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.

Remember he was a Michigan State football player.


I did not know that.  What position?  I knew Kirk Gibson was.  Gibby of course was an absolute freak.  He should have played in the NFL.

DB.  Three other famous Dodgers played football there too including Gibson, Ron Perronoski and Mike Marshall.
One of the best memories ever was sitting in Tooley's a sports bar on Indianapolis West side watching a hurt Kirk Gibson limp up to the plate pich hitting and hitting the go ahead HR in the World Series , only a BB player with a Football mentality could have pulled that off excluding Micky M. who pitch hit HR's not only hurt but hungover.
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#60
(08-24-2019, 12:11 PM)TcSoup Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:52 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:49 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:45 AM)Hightop77 Wrote:
(08-24-2019, 10:41 AM)ScarletHayes Wrote: The thing that always stood out to me about Garvey were those damn forearms.   He didn't seem like a prototypical first baseman that's usually a lankier guy.  Just a strong azz dude.

Remember he was a Michigan State football player.


I did not know that.  What position?  I knew Kirk Gibson was.  Gibby of course was an absolute freak.  He should have played in the NFL.

DB.  Three other famous Dodgers played football there too including Gibson, Ron Perronoski and Mike Marshall.
One of the best memories ever was sitting in Tooley's a sports bar on Indianapolis West side watching a hurt Kirk Gibson limp up to the plate pich hitting and hitting the go ahead HR in the World Series , only a BB player with a Football mentality could have pulled that off excluding Micky M. who pitch hit HR's not only hurt but hungover.

The Gibson at bat ending with the walk off home run was one of the greatest moments in sports history.  It was a nearly 10 minute at bat and the drama kept building with each Eckersley pitch.  The call by Vin Sculley was legend.  Well worth another look on Youtube.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."


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