Critics: Mandatory Math Tests for New Teachers Don’t Add Up

[Hightop77]

Non-white teachers canâ€t pass the math tests.

Lorenda Reddekopp, CBC News, August 28, 2019

A University of Toronto education researcher is raising concerns about requiring new teachers to pass a math test, saying they could dissuade people from diverse backgrounds from even entering education and also worsen the current shortage of French teachers.
{snip}

The required testing is set to begin for incoming teachers who apply to the Ontario College of Teachers on or after March 31, 2020. The Ontario government is pitching it as part of the solution to improve low student math results.
“We cannot accept for two consecutive years, Grade 6 students failing the provincial average,” Education Minister Stephen Lecce told reporters on Tuesday, citing recent standardized Education Quality and Accountability Office (EQAO) scores. The same office will develop the standardized test for teachers.

Lecce said he doesnâ€t fault teachers, instead slamming the previous Liberal government and its switch to a discovery math curriculum.

“Thereâ€s a reason why our young kids today cannot do basic math,” Lecce said.
{snip}

But based on research [Mary] Reid [assistant professor and the University of Torontoâ€s Ontario Institute for Studies in Education] has seen out of the United States, sheâ€s not convinced teacher math tests will solve the lower student test scores, saying there doesnâ€t seem to be a connection between teachers passing this type of test and student achievement.

She also points to U.S. research that finds black and Latino teaching candidates have higher failure rates when it comes to math skills, which researchers associate with socioeconomics and systemic discrimination in the school system.

“We want to diversify the teacher population and not go the other way,” Reid said.
{snip}

Original Article

[Alabuckeye]

1) When we choose differentness over excellence is when an organization of any size fails.
2) Do you have an interwebz algorithm that runs and gives you all the 'brown people fail/murder articles'? Kind of like a Drudge report type page?
3) Liberalism is a mental illness. It has a spiritual foundation, but it is a mental disorder.

[P1tchblack]

A couple of things....

The story says that black and Latino teachers fail the test at a higher rate, but doesn't say what that rate is.  Is it 1% more failures than whites?  Is it 10%? 50%

Also, there are no specifics on what is tested.  My wife teaches kindergarten or 1st grade and has her whole life. She, all through college, struggled with math that gets into the algebra realm.  Hell, my daughter is in 8th grade Algebra and she's already at the limits of what I'm able to remember from school!  Should I care, as a parent, if my kid's 1st grade teacher can't pass a math test that includes algebra?  Probably not.  The teachers should be able to pass a test on what they teach and probably a grade level or two higher.

[ScarletHayes]

I'm gonna make an observation regarding math that I see that tends to be pervasive in liberal land.  In fact I'd be willing to bet a case of Miller Lite on it---that's how strongly I feel I'm right.    


 Anyway, Mathematics is the one topic that "they" can't poison when it comes to objective reality.  There's a right answer, and there's a whole bunch of wrong answers.  So it's no surprise to me that people that have majored in the EDU field struggle with this subject.  You can't poison minds with this subject.  You can't say that what Laplace was reeeeeally driving at there was clearly that s/(s+1) is not...  blah, blah, blah...  


In short, you can't #### with math.  Hence liberals mostly suck at it.  I mean look at the policies their politicians propose.  Free everything.  Well how ya gonna pay for it?  Uhhhh...  the energy sector will run on banana peels and gummy bears, thereby saving us soooo much money that...  blahdiddy blah blah blah...

[ScarletHayes]

I'm going to add another thought regarding education in general:  As a real world libertarian I've been against mandatory education (attending a school) for a while now.  Especially in the digital age.  Now as a parent I believe in educating my kids, but my basic point has always been:  Whose kids are they?  I remember a day when my oldest was still in school.  We kept him home one day and I called him in.  I was later informed that my excuse wasn't good enough/acceptable.  I was like, "excuse me?"  You could hear the needle ripping across the vinyl record.    

1.  Eliminate mandatory attendance.  

2.  Eliminate public education.  Parents that pay will result in parents more involved.  

3.  The kids that don't go but get into trouble?  Have mandatory education in the juvi facilities.  You were arrested, now we're going to force you to be educated.  There ya go teachers, you'll still have a job, you'll just have to switch buildings.  

Again, whose kids are they?

[BoyGenius]

I'm gonna make an observation regarding math that I see that tends to be pervasive in liberal land.  In fact I'd be willing to bet a case of Miller Lite on it---that's how strongly I feel I'm right.    


 Anyway, Mathematics is the one topic that "they" can't poison when it comes to objective reality.  There's a right answer, and there's a whole bunch of wrong answers.  So it's no surprise to me that people that have majored in the EDU field struggle with this subject.  You can't poison minds with this subject.  You can't say that what Laplace was reeeeeally driving at there was clearly that s/(s+1) is not...  blah, blah, blah...  

In short, you can't #### with math.  Hence liberals mostly suck at it.  I mean look at the policies their politicians propose.  Free everything.  Well how ya gonna pay for it?  Uhhhh...  the energy sector will run on banana peels and gummy bears, thereby saving us soooo much money that...  blahdiddy blah blah blah...

+1... math is not subjective. Liberalism is steeped in feminism and most females hate complex math beyond Algebra.
Rigging the system to serve the lowest common denominator actually serves no one... well.

[Alabuckeye]

A couple of things....

The story say that black and Latino teachers fail the test at a higher rate, but doesn't say what that rate is.  Is it 1% more failures than whites?  Is it 10%? 50%

Also, there are no specifics on what is tested.  My wife teaches kindergarten or 1st grade and has her whole life. She, all through college, struggled with math that gets into the algebra realm.  Hell, my daughter is in 8th grade Algebra and she's already at the limits of what I'm able to remember from school!  Should I care, as a parent, if my kid's 1st grade teacher can't pass a math test that includes algebra?  Probably not.  The teachers should be able to pass a test on what they teach and probably a grade level or two higher.

I had the same thought......my wife also was a kindergarten teacher and is similar....

[ScarletHayes]

+1... math is not subjective. Liberalism is steeped in feminism and most females hate complex math beyond Algebra.
Rigging the system to serve the lowest common denominator actually serves no one... well.

Women are so good at manipulating men that you'd think they'd be great at Math.  Then again, it's pretty easy to manipulate us.  Never mind.  

[Brutus Buckeye]

Google "average IQ by race"

No further explanation needed.

[lrrps21]

+1... math is not subjective. Liberalism is steeped in feminism and most females hate complex math beyond Algebra.
Rigging the system to serve the lowest common denominator actually serves no one... well.

Women are so good at manipulating men that you'd think they'd be great at Math.  Then again, it's pretty easy to manipulate us.  Never mind.  

Australia is lowering the standards to get into Engineering for women. Yea, that will workout nicely. Odd, women already are graduating with Engineering degrees, but most simply do not like the grind, so they morph into project managers.

When we tutored at the local community college we noticed some 'new' math courses. Topics of Mathematics and Math for Liberal Arts. People still needed help passing those classes.

[JamesWright]

Issues like this are real, in spite of how some people will use them as a dartboard for their own personal agenda.

Many college math professors disagree with the value and importance of the math tests that are threatening to take the jobs of great elementary school educators.

It isn't about lowering standards. It's about arbitrary standards. Most professions don't require the use of algebra, let alone many other types of math, yet we can easily use math tests as a kind of poll tax to keep out people we don't want. It's arbitrary if it has nothing to do with the goal, and in many cases, math education has had nothing to do with preparing people to be good employees or raising people's general skills with numbers. The courses have simply been gatekeepers. Think of all the great doctors who couldn't become physicians because they couldn't pass organic chemistry. Now we have a whole strain of pre-medical education called humeds--students who come from the humanities. They bring important skills that are now recognized as being important but before were dismissed.

And no, there isn't a right or wrong answer in math, not ultimately. Math, like anything else, is built on conventions. Think Godel's Theorem. 2 + 2 = 4, right? Not in base 3., In base 3, 2 + 2 = 11. The point is, teaching people to have a deeper number sense would be valuable. Teaching people to factor polynomials is generally going to be a pointless exercise.

[P1tchblack]

I'm gonna make an observation regarding math that I see that tends to be pervasive in liberal land.  In fact I'd be willing to bet a case of Miller Lite on it---that's how strongly I feel I'm right.    


 Anyway, Mathematics is the one topic that "they" can't poison when it comes to objective reality.  There's a right answer, and there's a whole bunch of wrong answers.  So it's no surprise to me that people that have majored in the EDU field struggle with this subject.  You can't poison minds with this subject.  You can't say that what Laplace was reeeeeally driving at there was clearly that s/(s+1) is not...  blah, blah, blah...  

In short, you can't #### with math.  Hence liberals mostly suck at it.  I mean look at the policies their politicians propose.  Free everything.  Well how ya gonna pay for it?  Uhhhh...  the energy sector will run on banana peels and gummy bears, thereby saving us soooo much money that...  blahdiddy blah blah blah...

+1... math is not subjective. Liberalism is steeped in feminism and most females hate complex math beyond Algebra.
Rigging the system to serve the lowest common denominator actually serves no one... well.

It really isn't about IQ.  It's much more about poverty and public school yearly schedule.

[Alabuckeye]

yes, there is ultimately a right answer and a wrong answer in math.....ultimately. You changed criteria....to base 3 to prove something in a totally different definition wrong. That's fundamentally flawed logic. Once you set criteria, there is a right answer and a wrong answer.

And you are correct, testing elementary teachers on their knowledge of Goedel's Theorem or similar level stuff is useless to review and make some judgement on.

[Hightop77]

Issues like this are real, in spite of how some people will use them as a dartboard for their own personal agenda.

Many college math professors disagree with the value and importance of the math tests that are threatening to take the jobs of great elementary school educators.

It isn't about lowering standards. It's about arbitrary standards. Most professions don't require the use of algebra, let alone many other types of math, yet we can easily use math tests as a kind of poll tax to keep out people we don't want. It's arbitrary if it has nothing to do with the goal, and in many cases, math education has had nothing to do with preparing people to be good employees or raising people's general skills with numbers. The courses have simply been gatekeepers. Think of all the great doctors who couldn't become physicians because they couldn't pass organic chemistry. Now we have a whole strain of pre-medical education called humeds--students who come from the humanities. They bring important skills that are now recognized as being important but before were dismissed.

And no, there isn't a right or wrong answer in math, not ultimately. Math, like anything else, is built on conventions. Think Godel's Theorem. 2 + 2 = 4, right? Not in base 3., In base 3, 2 + 2 = 11. The point is, teaching people to have a deeper number sense would be valuable. Teaching people to factor polynomials is generally going to be a pointless exercise.

Just when you think libtards can't get any nuttier, JamesWright says hold my beer.

[zigbee]

Lower average IQ has zero to do with DNA or whatever you want to attribute to ethnicity.   Has everything to do with environment.