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(09-06-2019, 09:46 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:40 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....you are big government when it comes to keeping religion out of any semblance of public life, but hate the same courts who give cops the authority to search vehicles and extend powers there.
I don't always agree with SCOTUS, but there has to be an entity to ensure that governments don't infringe on our rights. Are they perfect? No, but they're better than nothing. To me it's pretty clear that things like school prayer are unconstitutional. However, if SCOTUS suddenly lost their mind and decided to go back to allowing teachers to indoctrinate children with their religious views, it has to be allowed for ALL teachers: Muslim, Buddhist, Atheists Satanists, etc. Christians clearly want to rule the roost and be exceptions to whatever rules exist.
Most of that is burfle.....but let's get to the meat. How is it "pretty clear that things like school prayer are unconstitutional"? What's your basis for that?
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(09-06-2019, 09:46 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:40 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....you are big government when it comes to keeping religion out of any semblance of public life, but hate the same courts who give cops the authority to search vehicles and extend powers there.
I don't always agree with SCOTUS, but there has to be an entity to ensure that governments don't infringe on our rights. Are they perfect? No, but they're better than nothing. That is highly speculative. The Supreme Court has done very little to protect Second Amendment rights from government overreach, has destroyed the concept of marriage, destroyed our public schools, destroyed freedom of religion, and worked with a corrupt federal government to screw up health care. What have they done good? Very little.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."
(09-06-2019, 09:53 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:46 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:40 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....you are big government when it comes to keeping religion out of any semblance of public life, but hate the same courts who give cops the authority to search vehicles and extend powers there.
I don't always agree with SCOTUS, but there has to be an entity to ensure that governments don't infringe on our rights. Are they perfect? No, but they're better than nothing. That is highly speculative. The Supreme Court has done very little to protect Second Amendment rights from government overreach, has destroyed the concept of marriage, destroyed our public schools, destroyed freedom of religion, and worked with a corrupt federal government to screw up health care. What have they done good? Very little.
As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
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(09-06-2019, 10:04 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:53 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:46 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:40 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....you are big government when it comes to keeping religion out of any semblance of public life, but hate the same courts who give cops the authority to search vehicles and extend powers there.
I don't always agree with SCOTUS, but there has to be an entity to ensure that governments don't infringe on our rights. Are they perfect? No, but they're better than nothing. That is highly speculative. The Supreme Court has done very little to protect Second Amendment rights from government overreach, has destroyed the concept of marriage, destroyed our public schools, destroyed freedom of religion, and worked with a corrupt federal government to screw up health care. What have they done good? Very little.
As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."
(09-06-2019, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 10:04 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:53 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:46 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:40 AM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....you are big government when it comes to keeping religion out of any semblance of public life, but hate the same courts who give cops the authority to search vehicles and extend powers there.
I don't always agree with SCOTUS, but there has to be an entity to ensure that governments don't infringe on our rights. Are they perfect? No, but they're better than nothing. That is highly speculative. The Supreme Court has done very little to protect Second Amendment rights from government overreach, has destroyed the concept of marriage, destroyed our public schools, destroyed freedom of religion, and worked with a corrupt federal government to screw up health care. What have they done good? Very little.
As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
Well, clearly that doesn't answer my question, but we can come back to that.....
You've heard of the establishment clause and you're aware of the rulings on that, but don't agree that there's a constitutional basis for stopping school prayer. However, you think that Christian teachers ONLY should be permitted to push their religious beliefs in the classroom and anyone else should be fired id they push their religious beliefs. Is that an accurate summary?
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09-06-2019, 01:39 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2019, 02:01 PM by Hightop77.)
(09-06-2019, 12:33 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 10:04 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:53 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:46 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: I don't always agree with SCOTUS, but there has to be an entity to ensure that governments don't infringe on our rights. Are they perfect? No, but they're better than nothing. That is highly speculative. The Supreme Court has done very little to protect Second Amendment rights from government overreach, has destroyed the concept of marriage, destroyed our public schools, destroyed freedom of religion, and worked with a corrupt federal government to screw up health care. What have they done good? Very little.
As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
Well, clearly that doesn't answer my question, but we can come back to that.....
You've heard of the establishment clause and you're aware of the rulings on that, but don't agree that there's a constitutional basis for stopping school prayer. However, you think that Christian teachers ONLY should be permitted to push their religious beliefs in the classroom and anyone else should be fired id they push their religious beliefs. Is that an accurate summary?
The Framers operated on the assumption that the country would always be a predominantly white Christian nation when they wrote the Bill of Rights. They never dreamed of events or actions that would ever change that. Bottom line is this. The Bill of Rights is no longer worth the paper it's written on. We have destroyed our culture, our demographics, and the liberty that existed when the country was created. You can't bring it back and a multicultural, multi-racial country will never operate successfully as a constitutional republic. Every legitimate right is under attack and that will get worse.  The handwriting is on the wall and our future is democratic socialism and a meaningless Bill of Rights. So whatever the Framers intended, and I think it's clear they never intended to ban Christianity from the public square or schools, the country they founded and the Constitution they wrote is long gone and won't be coming back. You are stuck in an argument from the 1960's and need to move into the present and look at the real issues.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."
(09-06-2019, 01:39 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 12:33 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 10:04 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 09:53 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: That is highly speculative. The Supreme Court has done very little to protect Second Amendment rights from government overreach, has destroyed the concept of marriage, destroyed our public schools, destroyed freedom of religion, and worked with a corrupt federal government to screw up health care. What have they done good? Very little.
As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
Well, clearly that doesn't answer my question, but we can come back to that.....
You've heard of the establishment clause and you're aware of the rulings on that, but don't agree that there's a constitutional basis for stopping school prayer. However, you think that Christian teachers ONLY should be permitted to push their religious beliefs in the classroom and anyone else should be fired id they push their religious beliefs. Is that an accurate summary?
The Framers operated on the assumption that the country would always be a predominantly white Christian nation when they wrote the Bill of Rights. They never dreamed of events or actions that would ever change that. Bottom line is this. The Bill of Rights is no longer worth the paper it's written on. We have destroyed our culture, our demographics, and the liberty that existed when the country was created. You can't bring it back and a multicultural, multi-racial country will never operate successfully as a constitutional republic. Every legitimate right is under attack and that will get worse.  The handwriting is on the wall and our future is democratic socialism and a meaningless Bill of Rights. So whatever the Framers intended, and I think it's clear they never intended to ban Christianity from the public square or schools. The country they founded and the Constitution they wrote is long gone and won't be coming back. You are stuck in an argument from the 1960's and need to move into the present and look at the real issues.
I bet the framers also operated not knowing that the average citizen would be carrying AR-15 when they created the 2nd amendment. They also protected free speech having absolutely no idea that the internet, facebook, twitter, etc would ever exist.
Of course, the issue isn't that teachers can't indoctrinate elementary school students into Christianity. The REAL issue is the quality of people in government and the fact that they don't prioritize our rights.
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(09-06-2019, 02:03 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 01:39 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 12:33 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 10:04 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
Well, clearly that doesn't answer my question, but we can come back to that.....
You've heard of the establishment clause and you're aware of the rulings on that, but don't agree that there's a constitutional basis for stopping school prayer. However, you think that Christian teachers ONLY should be permitted to push their religious beliefs in the classroom and anyone else should be fired id they push their religious beliefs. Is that an accurate summary?
The Framers operated on the assumption that the country would always be a predominantly white Christian nation when they wrote the Bill of Rights. They never dreamed of events or actions that would ever change that. Bottom line is this. The Bill of Rights is no longer worth the paper it's written on. We have destroyed our culture, our demographics, and the liberty that existed when the country was created. You can't bring it back and a multicultural, multi-racial country will never operate successfully as a constitutional republic. Every legitimate right is under attack and that will get worse.  The handwriting is on the wall and our future is democratic socialism and a meaningless Bill of Rights. So whatever the Framers intended, and I think it's clear they never intended to ban Christianity from the public square or schools. The country they founded and the Constitution they wrote is long gone and won't be coming back. You are stuck in an argument from the 1960's and need to move into the present and look at the real issues.
I bet the framers also operated not knowing that the average citizen would be carrying AR-15 when they created the 2nd amendment. They also protected free speech having absolutely no idea that the internet, facebook, twitter, etc would ever exist.
Of course, the issue isn't that teachers can't indoctrinate elementary school students into Christianity. The REAL issue is the quality of people in government and the fact that they don't prioritize our rights. You are just reciting lefty nonsense. The 2A would not be changed by the invention of semi-auto rifles with 30 round mags. The issue is not the quality of people in government. The issue is the quality of people in our society. An AR-15 in the hands of the general public is no big threat in a sane and moral society.
"Hightop can reduce an entire message board of men to mudsharks. It's actually pretty funny to watch."
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(09-06-2019, 02:03 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 01:39 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 12:33 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 10:04 AM)P1tchblack Wrote: As I've asked repeatedly, how are your religious rights being infringed upon? What specifically do you want to do that you can't do?
Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
Well, clearly that doesn't answer my question, but we can come back to that.....
You've heard of the establishment clause and you're aware of the rulings on that, but don't agree that there's a constitutional basis for stopping school prayer. However, you think that Christian teachers ONLY should be permitted to push their religious beliefs in the classroom and anyone else should be fired id they push their religious beliefs. Is that an accurate summary?
The Framers operated on the assumption that the country would always be a predominantly white Christian nation when they wrote the Bill of Rights. They never dreamed of events or actions that would ever change that. Bottom line is this. The Bill of Rights is no longer worth the paper it's written on. We have destroyed our culture, our demographics, and the liberty that existed when the country was created. You can't bring it back and a multicultural, multi-racial country will never operate successfully as a constitutional republic. Every legitimate right is under attack and that will get worse.  The handwriting is on the wall and our future is democratic socialism and a meaningless Bill of Rights. So whatever the Framers intended, and I think it's clear they never intended to ban Christianity from the public square or schools. The country they founded and the Constitution they wrote is long gone and won't be coming back. You are stuck in an argument from the 1960's and need to move into the present and look at the real issues.
I bet the framers also operated not knowing that the average citizen would be carrying AR-15 when they created the 2nd amendment. They also protected free speech having absolutely no idea that the internet, facebook, twitter, etc would ever exist.
Of course, the issue isn't that teachers can't indoctrinate elementary school students into Christianity. The REAL issue is the quality of people in government and the fact that they don't prioritize our rights. The framers operated knowing that the citizens were as well armed, if not better, than the standing militia. Yet they still created the 2nd amendment.
(09-06-2019, 02:12 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 02:03 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 01:39 PM)Hightop77 Wrote: (09-06-2019, 12:33 PM)P1tchblack Wrote: (09-06-2019, 11:56 AM)Hightop77 Wrote: Any decision based on the phrase "separation of church and state" which does not exist in the Constitution instead of the original wording is a clear infringement and completely arbitrary and capricious.
Well, clearly that doesn't answer my question, but we can come back to that.....
You've heard of the establishment clause and you're aware of the rulings on that, but don't agree that there's a constitutional basis for stopping school prayer. However, you think that Christian teachers ONLY should be permitted to push their religious beliefs in the classroom and anyone else should be fired id they push their religious beliefs. Is that an accurate summary?
The Framers operated on the assumption that the country would always be a predominantly white Christian nation when they wrote the Bill of Rights. They never dreamed of events or actions that would ever change that. Bottom line is this. The Bill of Rights is no longer worth the paper it's written on. We have destroyed our culture, our demographics, and the liberty that existed when the country was created. You can't bring it back and a multicultural, multi-racial country will never operate successfully as a constitutional republic. Every legitimate right is under attack and that will get worse.  The handwriting is on the wall and our future is democratic socialism and a meaningless Bill of Rights. So whatever the Framers intended, and I think it's clear they never intended to ban Christianity from the public square or schools. The country they founded and the Constitution they wrote is long gone and won't be coming back. You are stuck in an argument from the 1960's and need to move into the present and look at the real issues.
I bet the framers also operated not knowing that the average citizen would be carrying AR-15 when they created the 2nd amendment. They also protected free speech having absolutely no idea that the internet, facebook, twitter, etc would ever exist.
Of course, the issue isn't that teachers can't indoctrinate elementary school students into Christianity. The REAL issue is the quality of people in government and the fact that they don't prioritize our rights. You are just reciting lefty nonsense.Â
You believer that the FF's could see into the future?
The 2A would not be changed by the invention of semi-auto rifles with 30 round mags.Â
Baseless speculation.
The issue is not the quality of people in government. The issue is the quality of people in our society. An AR-15 in the hands of the general public is no big threat in a sane and moral society.
I agree, which is why I fully support AR-15 AND automatic weapons being legal. If the right people are put into power, the wishes of people in society don't matter. The problem is, Republicans are too chickensh!t to sell America on the importance of our rights and what America is all about so, yes, it is an issue with the quality of people in government.
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Thomas Jefferson, while not an architect of the B of R-he was in France, was fairly representative of the religious sentiments of the founders. He was a deist, owned a personal Koran, and edited the Bible to his preferences. It is also said he was proudest of the Virginia state edict on religious toleration that he authored, of anything he authored. Bottom line, he wasnâ€t an evangelical repent or burn type, and wasnâ€t interested in designing a system to promote the hegemony of Christian fundamentalists. The RIGHTS of Christian fundamentalists-absolutely-but not cultural hegemony that they constantly whine about losing.
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