John Bolton out as Security Advisor

[Alabuckeye]

One of my best friends is a C-Level Exec with IBM. He has changed several on his staff this year. He knows people have inflated resumes but can't figure it out until the dude does not pan out. Keeping poor result types is why we have the same folks in D.C. for 50 years.

I'm trying to figure out why he was hired in the first place.  He's like an NFL coach whose tendencies were figured out 15 years ago, but is still recycled.  Dude is who he is.....and has been for a long time.  Who thought that THIS TIME he was going to be different?

Just view it as you would Jesus hiring Judas in the first place.

Now there's a fascinating discussion......was Judas predestined to betray Christ.......I say no, choices he made in those 3 years led him to that point of betrayal.  It's all about the choices.....which leads us back to why was the choice made to hire Bolton in the first place, given that it is a brilliant move to get rid of him?

[lrrps21]

One of my best friends is a C-Level Exec with IBM. He has changed several on his staff this year. He knows people have inflated resumes but can't figure it out until the dude does not pan out. Keeping poor result types is why we have the same folks in D.C. for 50 years.

I'm trying to figure out why he was hired in the first place.  He's like an NFL coach whose tendencies were figured out 15 years ago, but is still recycled.  Dude is who he is.....and has been for a long time.  Who thought that THIS TIME he was going to be different?

Just view it as you would Jesus hiring Judas in the first place.

Now there's a fascinating discussion......was Judas predestined to betray Christ.......I say no, choices he made in those 3 years led him to that point of betrayal.  It's all about the choices.....which leads us back to why was the choice made to hire Bolton in the first place, given that it is a brilliant move to get rid of him?

Brilliant? Who used this word? Bolton was brought in to get things back on. All his faults, he still is capable of righting a ship (organizational skills). His problem is he's a war hawk. I'm guessing Trump tired of his push for war when he has always said the US made a mistake going to Afghanistan and Iraq. With 2020 coming up the last thing Trump needs is a dude going on FOX pushing for war. Probably, with Iran. The left loved Ozero being taken to the shed in that deal. They want to use anything Iran does against Trump. Bolton pushing for war would doom Trump. He had to go. 

Just like sports there is a retread issue in D.C.

[BWT30]

I totally agree with Bolton being gone, however, this is just not a good look for the administration.

Why so?

Iâ€d argue itâ€s a great look, getting rid a *****like him.

The left absolutely HATES him, but theyâ€ll find a way to bash Trump for 86â€ing him

Same with the never Trump types.

Again totally agree, however, one could say that nobody like to work for Trump and if you don't agree with him, he'll fire you. Same as big corporation. When a CEO brings all of these people and claims at the time that they were the best for the job, and then fires them because they don't agree with him, either the initial judgement of the individual was wrong or the CEO wants a yes man.

[lrrps21]

I totally agree with Bolton being gone, however, this is just not a good look for the administration.

Why so?

Iâ€d argue itâ€s a great look, getting rid a *****like him.

The left absolutely HATES him, but theyâ€ll find a way to bash Trump for 86â€ing him

Same with the never Trump types.

Again totally agree, however, one could say that nobody like to work for Trump and if you don't agree with him, he'll fire you. Same as big corporation. When a CEO brings all of these people and claims at the time that they were the best for the job, and then fires them because they don't agree with him, either the initial judgement of the individual was wrong or the CEO wants a yes man.

Wherever you go there is a CEO who wants a yes man. The FBI is full of these types because Louie Freeh set it to be this way. Put agents in poor jobs where they can't get promoted or would resign. It's how D.C. works.

I have never cared how people see other people. Results mean more than cosmetics to wise men. Bradshaw threw a wobbly ball but was 4-0 in Super Bowls. He got the job done. Trump has a way of doing things his way or the highway. So be it. The left painted all this as a bad thing because they have nothing. "Trump fired another person" The same folks believe in unions that protect and promote poor performance. I wouldn't put much in Trump's hiring/firing.

[Alabuckeye]

I get the whole 'yes man' thing. Seen it everywhere from a non-profit environment to corporations. I was 'eased out' of a middle management job because I wasn't enough of one.

At the same time, getting people in that see the leader's vision and are committed to making it succeed is critical to the success of an organization. They don't agree on every detail, but are headed the same direction.

[lrrps21]

I get the whole 'yes man' thing.  Seen it everywhere from a non-profit environment to corporations.  I was 'eased out' of a middle management job because I wasn't enough of one. 

At the same time, getting people in that see the leader's vision and are committed to making it succeed is critical to the success of an organization.  They don't agree on every detail, but are headed the same direction.

Yup. Funny how it's everywhere.

When I hit the 10 year mark I had the retention officer tell me I had to promise not to talk to the ATF, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc., or he will not consider a bonus. I told him to go pound sand. I talked to the recruiters for the alphabet agencies and realized I might not last in that environment. I'm not a 'yes' man at all. I'm more of 'thorn in the side' type. I called a former teammate who did exit the military to take a job with the CIA. He told me to finish 20 then go be a free agent somewhere in Africa. I'd last longer. He retired once he hit 22 years. Would have left if not for having a wife and kids. Oh, I got my reenlistment bonus. 

[Hightop77]

I get the whole 'yes man' thing.  Seen it everywhere from a non-profit environment to corporations.  I was 'eased out' of a middle management job because I wasn't enough of one. 

At the same time, getting people in that see the leader's vision and are committed to making it succeed is critical to the success of an organization.  They don't agree on every detail, but are headed the same direction.

Yup. Funny how it's everywhere.

When I hit the 10 year mark I had the retention officer tell me I had to promise not to talk to the ATF, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc., or he will not consider a bonus. I told him to go pound sand. I talked to the recruiters for the alphabet agencies and realized I might not last in that environment. I'm not a 'yes' man at all. I'm more of 'thorn in the side' type. I called a former teammate who did exit the military to take a job with the CIA. He told me to finish 20 then go be a free agent somewhere in Africa. I'd last longer. He retired once he hit 22 years. Would have left if not for having a wife and kids. Oh, I got my reenlistment bonus. 

I was lucky.  I wound up in a group working for a maniac who wanted nothing but production.  I was put under a drunken manager with millions of personal problems and was completely unsupervised and that was by design.  I could operate independently and open and close cases as I saw fit.  Rules were irrelevant.  I was judged only on my results.  I produced the numbers and everyone was happy.  Then one day some consultants convinced our upper level execs in DC that if people like me could produce such great results with no supervision, just imagine what we could do if given proper structure and management.  Needless to say, it was a disaster and almost Dilbert-like up until I retired.  Yeah, we just weren't being managed enough by overpaid bureaucrats who couldn't even perform the basics of the job. 

[BoyGenius]

One less warmonger... a good thing. But, should Trump invite the Taliban to Camp David?

"... the tipping point happened when Bolton expressed his displeasure with Trump's impromptu invitation of the Taliban to Camp David on the week of the Sept 11 anniversary, a peace overture which... collapsed in the last moment. https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/t...uggestions

[ScarletHayes]

Already heard a Dem politician slam Trump for this move (firing Bolton).  Lmao, you canâ€t even make this ***** up anymore.  I forget who it was.  Guy from Virginia or Maryland or something.  Murphy or something?  As for Bolton I was never sure what to make of him.  I have no problem with hawks on these terror regimes, but whatâ€s your end game?  How long is long enough?

[Alabuckeye]

Already heard a Dem politician slam Trump for this move.  Lmao, you canâ€t even make this ***** up anymore.  I forget who it was.  Guy from Virginia or Maryland or something.  Murphy or something?  As for Bolton I was never sure what to make of him.  I have no problem with hawks on these terror regimes, but whatâ€s your end game?  How long is long enough?

Dems gotta Dem.......

[zigbee]

I totally agree with Bolton being gone, however, this is just not a good look for the administration.

Why so?

Iâ€d argue itâ€s a great look, getting rid a *****like him.

The left absolutely HATES him, but theyâ€ll find a way to bash Trump for 86â€ing him

Same with the never Trump types.

Again totally agree, however, one could say that nobody like to work for Trump and if you don't agree with him, he'll fire you. Same as big corporation. When a CEO brings all of these people and claims at the time that they were the best for the job, and then fires them because they don't agree with him, either the initial judgement of the individual was wrong or the CEO wants a yes man.

Wherever you go there is a CEO who wants a yes man. The FBI is full of these types because Louie Freeh set it to be this way. Put agents in poor jobs where they can't get promoted or would resign. It's how D.C. works.

I have never cared how people see other people. Results mean more than cosmetics to wise men. Bradshaw threw a wobbly ball but was 4-0 in Super Bowls. He got the job done. Trump has a way of doing things his way or the highway. So be it. The left painted all this as a bad thing because they have nothing. "Trump fired another person" The same folks believe in unions that protect and promote poor performance. I wouldn't put much in Trump's hiring/firing.

All QBs do at some point but he threw some damn good ones too....AND took a beating.

[lrrps21]

Rand Paul's take on Bolton.

[lrrps21]

I get the whole 'yes man' thing.  Seen it everywhere from a non-profit environment to corporations.  I was 'eased out' of a middle management job because I wasn't enough of one. 

At the same time, getting people in that see the leader's vision and are committed to making it succeed is critical to the success of an organization.  They don't agree on every detail, but are headed the same direction.

Yup. Funny how it's everywhere.

When I hit the 10 year mark I had the retention officer tell me I had to promise not to talk to the ATF, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc., or he will not consider a bonus. I told him to go pound sand. I talked to the recruiters for the alphabet agencies and realized I might not last in that environment. I'm not a 'yes' man at all. I'm more of 'thorn in the side' type. I called a former teammate who did exit the military to take a job with the CIA. He told me to finish 20 then go be a free agent somewhere in Africa. I'd last longer. He retired once he hit 22 years. Would have left if not for having a wife and kids. Oh, I got my reenlistment bonus. 

I was lucky.  I wound up in a group working for a maniac who wanted nothing but production.  I was put under a drunken manager with millions of personal problems and was completely unsupervised and that was by design.  I could operate independently and open and close cases as I saw fit.  Rules were irrelevant.  I was judged only on my results.  I produced the numbers and everyone was happy.  Then one day some consultants convinced our upper level execs in DC that if people like me could produce such great results with no supervision, just imagine what we could do if given proper structure and management.  Needless to say, it was a disaster and almost Dilbert-like up until I retired.  Yeah, we just weren't being managed enough by overpaid bureaucrats who couldn't even perform the basics of the job. 

Yup. Almost the same happens in the Pentagon. Some dude reads some data and thinks he can change something for the better. Training, equipment, etc. always turned out to be a money grabbing scheme that ended up in some bone yard.

[zigbee]

Paul makes sense.   Is Iraq safer since Saddam went down?  Is it better?  Was Syria better with Assad in control?  Should Trump negotiate with the Taliban in Afghanistan IF they don't have madrassas and or training camps for terrorists.  It's their neck of the woods.  I also think we have way too many military bases around the world and spend too much on this too.

[lrrps21]

Bolton wanted to take out Kim. Think this didn't affect the negotiations? He threw a wrench in a possible positive outcome for the entire planet. Try him at The Hague then send him to Pyongyang for punishment. This is the only way to save face with Kim.