May he rot in Hell forever

[Hightop77]

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

Can you provide any examples of countries that are 1) unable, and 2) unwilling to do that?

I don't care about other countries. I care about the US and our Constitutional rights.

Not really.  You see the Constitution as a tool for "social justice", not to protect liberty.

I will consider that as agreement.

[Hightop77]

It's actually amazing that Pitch doesn't understand that the Big Brother government that forces people to comply with his social justice agenda is the same Big Brother government that wants to spy on him.  He loves Big Brother but he wants to pick and choose.

[Brutus Buckeye]

If you didn't figure it out the first thousand times he explained it to ya, then another isn't going to do any good.

[Hightop77]

If you didn't figure it out the first thousand times he explained it to ya, then another isn't going to do any good.

His selective memory is amazing.

[dunefan]

You think that protecting our privacy is anarchy.  You are also part of the problem and why our rights are disappearing.

No, I think that choosing what laws I think are right and which laws I don't like or shouldn't apply to me so I'll disregard those is anarchy.  I know you are not as dumb as you are pretending in this thread.  Things changed on 9-11.  Islamist terrorists showed they can hide amongst us in plain sight and kill thousands of us if given the opportunity to make plans.  They use cell phones.  They use email.  They use the internet.  I want to know what their plans are before the next attack.  I want my government to get these plans any way possible.  If I am inconvenienced a little then so be it.  Waaa, they are listening to my calls and/or reading my emails.  Waaa, they are seeing what sights I am looking at on the computer.  Wipe away the tears and grow a pair.  They couldn't care less what you are talking about or writing about of surfing about, unless you have something to hide.  You know they could be listening or reading or watching.  You know this.  What is the problem?  Are you too stupid to work around this if need be?  Newsflash, don't communicate over any telecommunication platforms if you want to hide something.

"Newsflash, don't communicate over any telecommunication platforms if you want to hide something."

So sad that you can miss the point so badly.

Would you allow the government to install cameras in your house?

Maybe you are that dumb.  Talk about me missing the point.  Priceless.  Remember 9-11?  Everything changed that day.  Everything.  You can thank Islamic terrorists for the laws we live with today.  Go after THEM if you feel your rights are being violated.  They are the ones who planned and executed the attack that killed 3000 Americans IN ANMERICA.  This happened because America couldn't pay enough to attention to twenty fun loving Islamic lads who were visiting America.  Wouldn't/couldn't violate their rights to plan their murderous attack.  I hear nothing but complaining from you about everything but you offer no solutions.  You want to change things, come up with a plan that would placate your hurt feelings.  If you can't, just shut the hell up.

What do terrorists/9-11 have to do with the government collecting every email, text and phone call that I send?  I know that you know the answer to this rhetorical question. 

FYI, I wasn't complaining in this thread. I simply said Snowden was a hero. No, you started complaining as soon as I referred to Snowden as a treasonous ***** and what that made you as supporting him as a hero.  He risked incredible consequences to expose government wrongdoing. He broke his oath and the laws of the land.  He committed treason and will hopefully be executed if he returns to where he committed his crimes.  The government needs to figure how to protect the country within the confines of the constitution.  They are working with what is available to them.  You don't like it?  Tough.  Figure out how to eradicate Islamic terrorism and you'll have your answer.

Would  you be ok with the government putting cameras in your house and car and collecting everything you do?  No, but google and Amazon do.  Why not complain about them for a couple days.  Then move on to your next target.

[P1tchblack]

No, I think that choosing what laws I think are right and which laws I don't like or shouldn't apply to me so I'll disregard those is anarchy.  I know you are not as dumb as you are pretending in this thread.  Things changed on 9-11.  Islamist terrorists showed they can hide amongst us in plain sight and kill thousands of us if given the opportunity to make plans.  They use cell phones.  They use email.  They use the internet.  I want to know what their plans are before the next attack.  I want my government to get these plans any way possible.  If I am inconvenienced a little then so be it.  Waaa, they are listening to my calls and/or reading my emails.  Waaa, they are seeing what sights I am looking at on the computer.  Wipe away the tears and grow a pair.  They couldn't care less what you are talking about or writing about of surfing about, unless you have something to hide.  You know they could be listening or reading or watching.  You know this.  What is the problem?  Are you too stupid to work around this if need be?  Newsflash, don't communicate over any telecommunication platforms if you want to hide something.

"Newsflash, don't communicate over any telecommunication platforms if you want to hide something."

So sad that you can miss the point so badly.

Would you allow the government to install cameras in your house?

Maybe you are that dumb.  Talk about me missing the point.  Priceless.  Remember 9-11?  Everything changed that day.  Everything.  You can thank Islamic terrorists for the laws we live with today.  Go after THEM if you feel your rights are being violated.  They are the ones who planned and executed the attack that killed 3000 Americans IN ANMERICA.  This happened because America couldn't pay enough to attention to twenty fun loving Islamic lads who were visiting America.  Wouldn't/couldn't violate their rights to plan their murderous attack.  I hear nothing but complaining from you about everything but you offer no solutions.  You want to change things, come up with a plan that would placate your hurt feelings.  If you can't, just shut the hell up.

What do terrorists/9-11 have to do with the government collecting every email, text and phone call that I send?  I know that you know the answer to this rhetorical question. 

No, i don't.   The fact that terrorists were able to hijack airplanes, and fly them into buildings, has nothing to do with my constitutional rights any more than the Las Vegas mass shooting should have anything to do with my Constitutional (2nd Amendment) rights.


FYI, I wasn't complaining in this thread. I simply said Snowden was a hero. No, you started complaining as soon as I referred to Snowden as a treasonous ***** and what that made you as supporting him as a hero. 

I expressed my opinion just like you expressed yours.

He risked incredible consequences to expose government wrongdoing. Be broke his oath and the laws of the land.  He committed treason and will hopefully be executed if he returns to where he committed his crimes.  

In my opinion, the government is the one in the wrong, but I prioritize the rights of American citizens over the wants of government.   The US government are the ones who should be accused of treason against US citizens.

The government needs to figure how to protect the country within the confines of the constitution.  They are working with what is available to them.  You don't like it?  Tough.  Figure out how to eradicate Islamic terrorism and you'll have your answer.

No, it's the government's job to operate in a constitutional manner.

Would  you be ok with the government putting cameras in your house and car and collecting everything you do?  No, 

Why not? If terrorists are building bombs or storing arms, wouldn't they do it where they live?

[b]but google and Amazon do.  Why not complain about them for a couple days.  Then move on to your next target.

[/b]Because I'm not forced to have their devices in my home.  Do i have the option to opt out of the government collecting all of my electronic communications?

[P1tchblack]

Your hero committed treason.  What's that say about you?

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

Can you provide any examples of countries that are 1) unable, and 2) unwilling to do that?

I don't care about other countries. I care about the US and our Constitutional rights.

Not really.  You see the Constitution as a tool for "social justice", not to protect liberty.

So, you never gave an opinion on the NSA's collection and storage of ALL of our electronic data.  I assume you fully support it.

[Hightop77]

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

Can you provide any examples of countries that are 1) unable, and 2) unwilling to do that?

I don't care about other countries. I care about the US and our Constitutional rights.

Not really.  You see the Constitution as a tool for "social justice", not to protect liberty.

So, you never gave an opinion on the NSA's collection and storage of ALL of our electronic data.  I assume you fully support it.

The issue is not whether I support it or not.  The issue is it constitutional?

[P1tchblack]

Can you provide any examples of countries that are 1) unable, and 2) unwilling to do that?

I don't care about other countries. I care about the US and our Constitutional rights.

Not really.  You see the Constitution as a tool for "social justice", not to protect liberty.

So, you never gave an opinion on the NSA's collection and storage of ALL of our electronic data.  I assume you fully support it.

The issue is not whether I support it or not.  The issue is it constitutional?

Constitutionality and you supporting it can be separate things.  Do you personally have an issue with the government collecting and storing every piece of electronic data?

[Hightop77]

I don't care about other countries. I care about the US and our Constitutional rights.

Not really.  You see the Constitution as a tool for "social justice", not to protect liberty.

So, you never gave an opinion on the NSA's collection and storage of ALL of our electronic data.  I assume you fully support it.

The issue is not whether I support it or not.  The issue is it constitutional?

Constitutionality and you supporting it can be separate things.  Do you personally have an issue with the government collecting and storing every piece of electronic data?

I prefer that the government actually protect us from real threats and stop doing stupid stuff like allowing Muslims to enter the country or turning violent dangerous people loose from prison instead of collecting everyone's information or treating everyone like a criminal.

[P1tchblack]

Not really.  You see the Constitution as a tool for "social justice", not to protect liberty.

So, you never gave an opinion on the NSA's collection and storage of ALL of our electronic data.  I assume you fully support it.

The issue is not whether I support it or not.  The issue is it constitutional?

Constitutionality and you supporting it can be separate things.  Do you personally have an issue with the government collecting and storing every piece of electronic data?

I prefer that the government actually protect us from real threats and stop doing stupid stuff like allowing Muslims to enter the country or turning violent dangerous people loose from prison instead of collecting everyone's information or treating everyone like a criminal.

Right, but the situation we're in, where Muslims are in the country, do you agree that collecting/monitoring all the data, and having access to it as needed, is helpful in protecting us, even if it is a violation of our rights?

[Alabuckeye]

selective reasoning.

[Hightop77]

So, you never gave an opinion on the NSA's collection and storage of ALL of our electronic data.  I assume you fully support it.

The issue is not whether I support it or not.  The issue is it constitutional?

Constitutionality and you supporting it can be separate things.  Do you personally have an issue with the government collecting and storing every piece of electronic data?

I prefer that the government actually protect us from real threats and stop doing stupid stuff like allowing Muslims to enter the country or turning violent dangerous people loose from prison instead of collecting everyone's information or treating everyone like a criminal.

Right, but the situation we're in, where Muslims are in the country, do you agree that collecting/monitoring all the data, and having access to it as needed, is helpful in protecting us, even if it is a violation of our rights?

How many people have had their rights violated because of this type of data collection?  I would have no problem for sure collecting data from certain groups including Muslims, especially those in contact with other Muslims outside of the country.

[Alabuckeye]

which is supposedly where the collection started. communications outside the country with 'trouble spots' in the ME or similar.

[P1tchblack]

The issue is not whether I support it or not.  The issue is it constitutional?

Constitutionality and you supporting it can be separate things.  Do you personally have an issue with the government collecting and storing every piece of electronic data?

I prefer that the government actually protect us from real threats and stop doing stupid stuff like allowing Muslims to enter the country or turning violent dangerous people loose from prison instead of collecting everyone's information or treating everyone like a criminal.

Right, but the situation we're in, where Muslims are in the country, do you agree that collecting/monitoring all the data, and having access to it as needed, is helpful in protecting us, even if it is a violation of our rights?

How many people have had their rights violated because of this type of data collection?  I would have no problem for sure collecting data from certain groups including Muslims, especially those in contact with other Muslims outside of the country.

I would argue that the government collecting and storing the data, without my permission or justification, is a violation of my rights in the first place.

Those people muslim or not, who communicate with known terrorist countries, is how this was supposed to work.  As it is now, the government collects EVERY piece of electronic data on EVERY person and they're doing it in the name of "protection".