May he rot in Hell forever

[Hightop77]

Constitutionality and you supporting it can be separate things.  Do you personally have an issue with the government collecting and storing every piece of electronic data?

I prefer that the government actually protect us from real threats and stop doing stupid stuff like allowing Muslims to enter the country or turning violent dangerous people loose from prison instead of collecting everyone's information or treating everyone like a criminal.

Right, but the situation we're in, where Muslims are in the country, do you agree that collecting/monitoring all the data, and having access to it as needed, is helpful in protecting us, even if it is a violation of our rights?

How many people have had their rights violated because of this type of data collection?  I would have no problem for sure collecting data from certain groups including Muslims, especially those in contact with other Muslims outside of the country.

I would argue that the government collecting and storing the data, without my permission or justification, is a violation of my rights in the first place.

Which right is being violated?

[P1tchblack]

I prefer that the government actually protect us from real threats and stop doing stupid stuff like allowing Muslims to enter the country or turning violent dangerous people loose from prison instead of collecting everyone's information or treating everyone like a criminal.

Right, but the situation we're in, where Muslims are in the country, do you agree that collecting/monitoring all the data, and having access to it as needed, is helpful in protecting us, even if it is a violation of our rights?

How many people have had their rights violated because of this type of data collection?  I would have no problem for sure collecting data from certain groups including Muslims, especially those in contact with other Muslims outside of the country.

I would argue that the government collecting and storing the data, without my permission or justification, is a violation of my rights in the first place.

Which right is being violated?

4th amendment.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

[Hightop77]

Right, but the situation we're in, where Muslims are in the country, do you agree that collecting/monitoring all the data, and having access to it as needed, is helpful in protecting us, even if it is a violation of our rights?

How many people have had their rights violated because of this type of data collection?  I would have no problem for sure collecting data from certain groups including Muslims, especially those in contact with other Muslims outside of the country.

I would argue that the government collecting and storing the data, without my permission or justification, is a violation of my rights in the first place.

Which right is being violated?

4th amendment.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Has the Court determined that?

[P1tchblack]

How many people have had their rights violated because of this type of data collection?  I would have no problem for sure collecting data from certain groups including Muslims, especially those in contact with other Muslims outside of the country.

I would argue that the government collecting and storing the data, without my permission or justification, is a violation of my rights in the first place.

Which right is being violated?

4th amendment.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Has the Court determined that?

That's as relevant to me as the SCOTUS rulings on the Establishment Clause are to you. That's why I asked for your opinion.  Seeing as how you support cops pulling anyone they want out of their car, solely for driving down a specific road, i thought sure you'd support all kinds of government overreach done in the name of 'safety '.

[Hightop77]

I would argue that the government collecting and storing the data, without my permission or justification, is a violation of my rights in the first place.

Which right is being violated?

4th amendment.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Has the Court determined that?

That's as relevant to me as the SCOTUS rulings on the Establishment Clause are to you.

I was making a point that you don't care about the wording of the Constitution most of the time but instead accept what some Lefties on a court think the Constitution says.  Now you see the problem with that.

[P1tchblack]

Which right is being violated?

4th amendment.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Has the Court determined that?

That's as relevant to me as the SCOTUS rulings on the Establishment Clause are to you.

I was making a point that you don't care about the wording of the Constitution most of the time but instead accept what some Lefties on a court think the Constitution says.  Now you see the problem with that.

What does the NSA have to do with liberals or the left?

[Hightop77]

4th amendment.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Has the Court determined that?

That's as relevant to me as the SCOTUS rulings on the Establishment Clause are to you.

I was making a point that you don't care about the wording of the Constitution most of the time but instead accept what some Lefties on a court think the Constitution says.  Now you see the problem with that.

What does the NSA have to do with liberals or the left?

Nothing.  Where did I say it did?

[P1tchblack]

Has the Court determined that?

That's as relevant to me as the SCOTUS rulings on the Establishment Clause are to you.

I was making a point that you don't care about the wording of the Constitution most of the time but instead accept what some Lefties on a court think the Constitution says.  Now you see the problem with that.

What does the NSA have to do with liberals or the left?

Nothing.  Where did I say it did?

Democrats, before they lost their minds, were the party who fought for individual freedom so, yes, i tend to agree with their rulings and still do in general. The exception being 2nd Amendment. 

I'm still waiting for your thoughts on the NSA and whether or not you're ok with what they do.

[dunefan]

Snowden should be seen as a hero.

Your hero committed treason.  What's that say about you?

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

You elevate a treasoness ***** to hero status.  Frankly, the ease with which you try to glorify treason is extremely troubling.  You believe that anyone should have the right to disregard laws and statutes, that they have sworn to defend, because they believe these laws and statutes are unconstitutional or somehow illegal or they just plain do not agree with them?  How about if they have a grievance with someone and/or some entity and revealing these secrets will somehow make them feel better or in their minds remedy the grievance?  Do we let them off the hook also?  Are they a hero also in your mind?  A treasonous ***** is a treasonous ***** when they commit treason.  Thought processes that went into these decisions are irrelevant.

Like I said, I don't want to live in a country where the government can Stomp all over our rights and then punish citizens who expose that. Apparently you do. More and more people are willing to give away their rights for a little bit of safety. That is the Democrats reason for trying to take our guns, by the way.

Funny, you didn't answer my questions.  The country you describe as being where you want to live is nothing but anarchy.  We each will decide what rules and laws we will obey based on our individual feelings or beliefs.   I don't want to live in that kind of country.  No order, just chaos.  Your hero will hopefully hang if he is stupid enough to come back.  Believe me, he doesn't believe in his cause enough to commit suicide.  He's just your average traitor stuck in Russia who now knows that communist life ain't all its cracked up to be.

[P1tchblack]

Your hero committed treason.  What's that say about you?

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

You elevate a treasoness ***** to hero status.  Frankly, the ease with which you try to glorify treason is extremely troubling.  You believe that anyone should have the right to disregard laws and statutes, that they have sworn to defend, because they believe these laws and statutes are unconstitutional or somehow illegal or they just plain do not agree with them?  How about if they have a grievance with someone and/or some entity and revealing these secrets will somehow make them feel better or in their minds remedy the grievance?  Do we let them off the hook also?  Are they a hero also in your mind?  A treasonous ***** is a treasonous ***** when they commit treason.  Thought processes that went into these decisions are irrelevant.

Like I said, I don't want to live in a country where the government can Stomp all over our rights and then punish citizens who expose that. Apparently you do. More and more people are willing to give away their rights for a little bit of safety. That is the Democrats reason for trying to take our guns, by the way.

Funny, you didn't answer my questions.  The country you describe as being where you want to live is nothing but anarchy.  We each will decide what rules and laws we will obey based on our individual feelings or beliefs.   I don't want to live in that kind of country.  No order, just chaos.  Your hero will hopefully hang if he is stupid enough to come back.  Believe me, he doesn't believe in his cause enough to commit suicide.  He's just your average traitor stuck in Russia who now knows that communist life ain't all its cracked up to be.

It's not anarchy at all.  Like all other laws that appear to be broken, you have to look at the situation.  If you had someone exposing secrets, where there was no explainable justification, that person would be punished accordingly.

I believe there was a tranny in the military that got busted for doing it.

[dunefan]

Snowden should be seen as a hero.

Your hero committed treason.  What's that say about you?

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

You elevate a treasoness ***** to hero status.  Frankly, the ease with which you try to glorify treason is extremely troubling.  You believe that anyone should have the right to disregard laws and statutes, that they have sworn to defend, because they believe these laws and statutes are unconstitutional or somehow illegal or they just plain do not agree with them?  How about if they have a grievance with someone and/or some entity and revealing these secrets will somehow make them feel better or in their minds remedy the grievance?  Do we let them off the hook also?  Are they a hero also in your mind?  A treasonous ***** is a treasonous ***** when they commit treason.  Thought processes that went into these decisions are irrelevant.

[P1tchblack]

Snowden should be seen as a hero.

Your hero committed treason.  What's that say about you?

I don't want to live in a country where the government can steamroll our rights and then punish citizens  who expose them.

You elevate a treasoness ***** to hero status.  Frankly, the ease with which you try to glorify treason is extremely troubling.  You believe that anyone should have the right to disregard laws and statutes, that they have sworn to defend, because they believe these laws and statutes are unconstitutional or somehow illegal or they just plain do not agree with them?  How about if they have a grievance with someone and/or some entity and revealing these secrets will somehow make them feel better or in their minds remedy the grievance?  Do we let them off the hook also?  Are they a hero also in your mind?  A treasonous ***** is a treasonous ***** when they commit treason.  Thought processes that went into these decisions are irrelevant.

Honest question....did you ready ANY of what I wrote? Seriously.

[stxbuck]

What Snowden did was needed. How he did it was wrong. I wouldn't call him a hero or traitor.

You are the only person in this thread to get it right.

[P1tchblack]

What Snowden did was needed. How he did it was wrong. I wouldn't call him a hero or traitor.

You are the only person in this thread to get it right.

What options did Snowden have? Was he going to report to the government that the government is collecting every piece of Digital Data that Americans transmit?

[dunefan]

What Snowden did was needed. How he did it was wrong. I wouldn't call him a hero or traitor.

You are the only person in this thread to get it right.

What options did Snowden have? Was he going to report to the government that the government is collecting every piece of Digital Data that Americans transmit?

Gee, let's see.  He could have kept his oath not to expose secrets he would come in contact with.  If he needed to become a traitor, he could have gone public with it (the Times or the Post for instance) instead of being a coward and running to, wait for it, Russia.  Great place for a traitor to run to, don't you think?  Of course he would have had to answer charges of espionage and face a jury of his peers.  Your boy had the stones to be a coward but not a man.  He had options.  He just wasn't man enough to take them.  And this f*ckers a hero to you.  Just can't quite wrap my mind around that.