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On the topic of inappropriate sexual behavior
#1
Evangelical courtship culture normalizes men dating teen girls

(RNS) — When I was first introduced to courtship as a young teen, it felt like it was a continuation of the True Love Waits message of my Southern Baptist youth group.


It didnâ€t seem weird that courtship speakers were telling teenage girls to pledge their virginities to their fathers until their fathers gave it over to their future husbands, sealed with a ring or a heart and key locket, because True Love Waits already had tens of thousands of evangelical teens signing purity pledges and wearing purity rings.


If courtship advocates had stated up front in the introduction that they believed in young courtship and were OK with child marriage, my family and many others would not have gotten on board.


Instead, courtship was presented as an extension of the early-1990s abstinence movement and a way to ensure that teens would be able to keep the pledges they made.


The abstinence pledges, rallies and True Love Waits jewelry all helped normalize parental control over their childrenâ€s sexualities and the idea that teenagers†bodies did not belong to us but to our parents.


More broadly, the complementarian theology of male headship and female submission taught in much of the evangelical world helped prime the pump for courtship culture.


Mainstream evangelical churches that teach wives to submit to their husbands promote an inherently unequal relationship power dynamic as not just OK, but the one godly, biblical way for men and women to relate in marriage. Complementarianism presents a vision for relationships where women lack full autonomy.
In the days since I wrote an oped for the Los Angeles Times on evangelical courtship culture and Roy Moore, Iâ€ve heard objections that young courtship and child marriage is not practiced by all evangelicals.


That is something I will readily admit. However, the teachings about women, sexuality and relationships in broader evangelical culture have contributed to the normalization of courtship culture.


Furthermore, the continued association of evangelical and religious right leadership with men who defend child marriage enables those abuses to continue.
In a world where female submission is valued and too much independence is a negative, itâ€s only a hop, skip and a jump to concluding that teen girls and young women who havenâ€t had a taste of independence are an even better option.


Thatâ€s the logic behind “Duck Dynasty” star Phil Robertsonâ€s argument for child marriage, and itâ€s what pastor and home-school leader Kevin Swanson stated explicitly in his defense of Robertson.


In a 2014 “Generations With Vision” broadcast, Swanson (as transcribed by Homeschoolers Anonymous) stated, “Hey, these 15 year old girls, 16 year old girls, they may be ready to get married. They donâ€t have to live these, you know, independent lifestyles.”


As much as some would like to characterize Swanson as a fringe figure, World magazine accepts his advertisements, and his “Freedom 2015” National Religious Liberties Conference counted Republican presidential candidates Ted Cruz, Bobby Jindal, and Mike Huckabee among its speakers.
While it is unlikely that men like Huckabee, Jindal and Cruz would defend early courtship and child marriage themselves (although Huckabee did come to Josh Duggarâ€s defense when the story of Duggar molesting his younger sisters came to light), as long as powerful politicians continue to associate with young courtship and child marriage advocates like Swanson, it helps normalize and mainstream those advocates.


Mike Huckabee, incidentally, is also closely associated with now-disgraced alleged sexual predator Bill Gothard and Gothardâ€s Institute in Basic Life Principles.
Gothard, who himself promoted courtship through IBLP and IBLPâ€s home-school arm, Advanced Training Institute, is currently facing lawsuits after multiple women came forward through the website Recovering Grace to allege a pattern of grooming and sexual abuse by Gothard while they were in their teens. They also alleged mishandling of abuse cases by IBLP leadership. As of this writing, Huckabeeâ€s endorsement of IBLPâ€s prison ministry remains on IBLPâ€s website.
Similarly, in the evangelical world, popular Reformed website The Gospel Coalition, which was co-founded by Presbyterian Church in America luminary Tim Keller, and counts such evangelical notables as John Piper, Ligon Duncan, Albert Mohler, Russell Moore, and David Platt as members of its council, has frequently promoted courtship and stay-at-home daughter advocate Voddie Baucham (his own daughter was an adult when she married, but the stay-at-home daughter movement he promoted has helped normalize young courtship).


more:
https://religionnews.com/2017/11/27/evan...een-girls/
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#2
So....what's the gist of this? That courtship is wrong? That it's been an abused practice?
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#3
The biblical view on marriage:  itâ€s for men to act like men, and women to act like women/mothers.  Step up and be a man.  Provide.  Women in traditional roles are probably happier and more content than some girl out in the world finding herself via some career that no dude gives a ***** about.  Thereâ€s no biblical basis for the idea of a woman being some sort of domestic slave.  Itâ€s total BS.  

Now that said, are there some sick ##### inside churches?  Uhhh yeah, theyâ€re in all walks of life.  

Back to the traditional role thing for a minute.  I often imagine what my marriage would be like if my wife wasnâ€t stressed out 24/7 with her job.  My guess is it would be better.  Better for both of us.
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#4
Something about child marriages in there somewhere in a garbled fashion.

It rambled considerably.
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#5
I've seen courtship horribly abused.

I've seen it handled in an honorable way that really created a lasting relationship.


I agree, the article seemed pretty garbled.
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#6
Quit indulging Pitch.

Dude is only here to be an asshat.

We all need to just stop responding.
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#7
(09-25-2019, 01:03 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....what's the gist of this?  That courtship is wrong?  That it's been an abused practice?

The overall gist is that the very thing that is decried in the thread about the school counselor and a teenage boy is/has been the norm for evangelicals for a long time.  Not only is it not frowned upon; it's encouraged... in the name of God.
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#8
The norm for evangelicals?

That strikes me as VERY overly broad.

It certainly was NOT at all the "norm" where I went to church, at all.  I think you mean for some fringe evangelicals.
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#9
(09-25-2019, 01:12 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-25-2019, 01:03 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....what's the gist of this?  That courtship is wrong?  That it's been an abused practice?

The overall gist is that the very thing that is decried in the thread about the school counselor and a teenage boy is/has been the norm for evangelicals for a long time.  Not only is it not frowned upon; it's encouraged... in the name of God.

Ok, youâ€re simply being silly here.  Just stop.
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#10
(09-25-2019, 01:16 PM)ScarletHayes Wrote:
(09-25-2019, 01:12 PM)P1tchblack Wrote:
(09-25-2019, 01:03 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: So....what's the gist of this?  That courtship is wrong?  That it's been an abused practice?

The overall gist is that the very thing that is decried in the thread about the school counselor and a teenage boy is/has been the norm for evangelicals for a long time.  Not only is it not frowned upon; it's encouraged... in the name of God.

Ok, youâ€re simply being silly here.  Just stop.

It's hyperbole, yes.  This isn't "the norm" all over the country, but there are plenty of places where older men courting teenage girls IS the norm and viewed as acceptable even today, when people are horrified by a teenage boy nailing his counselor.
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#11
(09-25-2019, 01:11 PM)Syncro Wrote: Quit indulging Pitch.

Dude is only here to be an asshat.

We all need to just stop responding.
Would agree.  Saying underage sex with adults is ok is very strange.
Make America Honest Again
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#12
I've been in evangelical Christianity all my life. Beyond my 'brand' circle, I've been friends with Baptists, Pentecostals and many other 'brands'. NEVER......let me repeat that.......NEVER have I gotten a whiff of that being acceptable behavior.

Is it out there? I'm quite sure it is. Is it anywhere as widespread as you would like it to be in order to accomplish your core goal of bashing Christianity? No. Not in a thousand years.
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#13
(09-25-2019, 01:11 PM)Syncro Wrote: Quit indulging Pitch.

Dude is only here to be an asshat.

We all need to just stop responding.

Yup. I stopped dealing with him a long time ago.
The America, and the American Military, that you once knew is gone.
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#14
Quote:some career that no dude gives a ***** about


This is a woman's problem. They are so concerned about what a man does they think men think the same way. I have never met a dude who cared about what his gf/wife does for a living. It simply never crosses a dudes mind.

I think the smarter women understand this about men.
The America, and the American Military, that you once knew is gone.
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#15
(09-25-2019, 01:25 PM)Alabuckeye Wrote: I've been in evangelical Christianity all my life.  Beyond my 'brand' circle, I've been friends with Baptists, Pentecostals and many other 'brands'.  NEVER......let me repeat that.......NEVER have I gotten a whiff of that being acceptable behavior.

Is it out there?  I'm quite sure it is.  Is it anywhere as widespread as you would like it to be in order to accomplish your core goal of bashing Christianity?  No.  Not in a thousand years.

Raised in Catholic Church (was an altar boy, etc...), became Baptist as an adult.  We all know about the Catholic problem, though personally I never heard of anything in my church.  I recall my older brothers saying they heard rumblings (they are both 10+ years older than me) but nothing really concrete that I was aware of.  As for the Baptist years.  Not a hint of it.  I suspect there would be a good ole boy beat down if there were anything to that.  

Now does it happen, yes.  And all the cases are pretty well documented.  That said, Iâ€m gonna go out on a short limb and say that in the evangelical world itâ€s more or less statistically virtually non existent.  At least by comparison to the Catholic situation.
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